Interview by Ey@el

Original en français

Ghost Teachers

EYAEL: Teachers look like ghosts. It's as if they"d just blended into the background or belonged to another dimension.

CHRISTELLE DABOS: It's part of the things that were brought against me by many teachers. Some teachers read the book and didn't like it precisely because it didn't give a positive image of the teaching profession.

When I wrote the book — again, the original title was Tales of Here and Only Here, and it wasn't meant as some kind of state of play of the existing education system.

I remember when I was in grammar school, all the teaching staff were ghosts. I hardly have any memory of classes, of what I've been taught. But I do remember school yards. I remember what was going on in between classes. Personally, that's what affected me most. Actually I think that's where a major part of learning was taking place ultimately. It wasn't with the theoretical knowledge in class.

And so I'd say in this story, clearly they're twicely — let's say ghosts. First because I deliberately chose to sideline them. And also because, since it's written from the perspective of youth, actually for them as well mostly, teachers are more present than they imagine. It's just that, for them, they too have blind spots. They only see their immediate reality. But they're still part of it.

I've had multiple feedback from teachers saying "Wow, that's not really enticing. And it doesn't give a positive image of our profession." I felt bad as it was so NOT my intention. I had absolutely no desire whatsoever to speak out.

Yet I thought it's a bit like in — pardon the parallel, but it's a bit like in Batman. For the Batman figure to emerge, it took a police system at best incompetent and at at worst corruptive. If the system were doing their job properly, the Batman figure would not be able to emerge. And so I thought that's the point too. If it were a school where everything's fine, with good communication and stuff, it might not be the same story at all anymore. And this wasn't what I wanted to write about.

In fact, the problem Here isn’t so much that it doesn’t change. It’s more that everything starts again. And I’m scared.

~ The substitute teacher

I have no desire to condemn in any way, as it's mostly the system which is being set up. The mechanism which is being re-enacted from one playground to another, from one generation to the next. And it's like an never-ending cycle. People are quickly labelled. And of course, there are the victims, the abusers, and those who belong to neither category but are caught in the middle.

Timelessness Minus the Internet

EYAEL: The story could easily take place anywhere anytime except that the current existing technologies seem out of it. Don't you think that with the Internet dimension, the story might not have ended the same way?

CHRISTELLE DABOS: Indeed, I really wanted to provide the most timeless dimension possible. Incidentally, the original title wasn't Here and Only Here, but Tales of Here and Only Here.

Actually, I did make a reference albeit a subtle one — I do mention certain things which might suggest they may have phones. But it's very subtle. For instance, at some point I mention there's some video trafficking going on. They're sharing videos, but I make no mention of what it is. There's one who's got a games console. Let's say these are small indicators that it's not set in the early 20th century.

But clearly, it wasn't what I wanted to explore. I think I'd need a whole book entirely dedicated to cyberbullying to provide such a dimension. So I thought, “no, I'm not getting into that dimension. I'm just sticking to the grounds of Here”. Especially since the initial aim was to talk about the place. I thought with the Internet, we might wander off a bit. But it might be interesting, indeed to explore a story based on the same premise, but this time, all the way on to the Internet.

It's so hard for me to imagine what they must experience with this strong Internet presence with regard to grammar school. So honestly, I don't know.

EYAEL: Isn't there a risk that it might prevent today's youth from identifying with the story?

CHRISTELLE DABOS: I, for one, know that when I was a schoolgirl,I had no trouble immersing myself in books about grammar schools that took place in the 19th century.

I remember, for instance, Little Good-For-Nothing by Alfonse Daudet which begins in some kind of boarding school in which Little Good-For-Nothing is a supervisor at the beginning. Well, clearly it was far from sensing what I would experience, yet the issues were there. He was the fall guy. And I would totally identify with him.

Or Carrots.I really loved Carrots (by Jules Renard). Incidentally I read the book in grammar school and re-read it many times since. It's extremely tough.

School Bullying

EYAEL: School bullying is a taboo issue generating buzz at the moment, but  actually, nothing is done to really address it. So in this regard, your book is rather timely.

CHRISTELLE DABOS: Actually, with this grammar school issue, what's taking place behind the walls of schools and the whole issue of bullying in particular, but not only — I realise that (maybe less today) it's kind of taboo for it's something I hadn't addressed with anyone for a very long time. In my experience, with all the people, friends I've made afterwards, we never address these issues.

So when the book was released and I heard stories from people telling me “Well, this is the reason why this book shook me”, I thought this is quite alarming. Actually, I realise nine persons out of ten did have a very bad experience at grammar school. That ratio is scary.

And so I thought, “Wow! I thought I was the only one.” At grammar school, I felt very lonely. I felt like everything was okay for everyone except me. And now I realise actually I wasn't. It was painful for many.

So my feeling is that it's a sort of micro-society, but we'll find all this happening on a larger scale afterwards and that primary school won't prepare you to all this. You come from a very supportive, cocooned and regulated environment, and then, all of a sudden, you've got new codes but they're untold. They're extremely implicit and if you don't have the keys, it's not easy.

So I for one was lucky that there were no social media when I was at grammar school. Really, I think copying with all this today at school … That thing is pure harassment. I mean, before when you left the place, you really did. You weren't happy to go back, but once you had left … Whereas now with social media, it follows you home. There's no break anymore. In fact, it can continue. That how I imagine how scary it must be.

EYAEL: Do the people once subjected to school bullying really want to immerse into that again?

CHRISTELLE DABOS: Actually, the whole issue with this novel, was precisely “Who is the target audience?” We did wonder and still do.

In fact, I realised what happened with the Mirror Visitor is that, ultimately, it was mostly parents — moms who read the book to see if it was suitable for their children and eventually became my first readers. And after that, they passed the book onto their kids. But when moms read Here and Only Here, “I don't want my child to read that. It scares me.”

It's scary either because they're about to enter grammar school or they're already in, and they're afraid to frighten their kids. So my publisher had assumed that it was supposedly aimed mainly at students leaving grammar school or already out of it. Ultimately, grammar school students were not the target audience. It was mostly those in the next phase.

There are people who carry that within for many years. At my personal level, which is not necessarily extreme, I realise that I've been haunted by grammar school for nearly my entire life. And in fact, in order to move on, I had to write this book. I thought, “That's it! Now I can say I'm definitely out.”

EYAEL: I don't know if you remember "College Boy", that famous music video Indochine released in the early 2000's. It featured a grammar school boy being bullied by his schoolmates and who ended up literally crucified before being shot down. There was a whole hullabaloo about it at the time and it had been censored in France.

CHRISTELLE DABOS: Since you mention Indochine's music video, I came across — but I can't remember the titles — many Japanese and Korean dramas addressing this issue in a very direct way. They're going full way! Really, they're showing scenes of how it all begins so that, very quickly, someone may find themselves excluded from a class. And all the abuse that may ensue, first psychological and even physical. Sometimes it may escalate. And I've seen many of these dramas. For me, it was amazing as I don't often see such staging, the way it is addressed and shown. I thought that's really tough, but it's something very real.

That's what we were talking about. Ultimately, it's a microcosm which is the reflection of something occurring on a larger scale. And it begins to take shape at that time.

New Upcoming Book

EYAEL: Do you have any other writing project underway?

CHRISTELLE DABOS: What I can say at least — at this point, I think that's certain, there's a book coming out on Gallimard Jeunesse in November.

It's the novel I mentioned earlier on, the story I started writing right after the Mirror Visitor and which was temporarily suspended by the writing of Here and Only Here. And as a result, it is a bit like a bridge between both. Then, actually, world-wise speaking, it's purely fantasy since it's not our world and not exactly our humanity. It's very similar, but just like the Mirror Visitor, it's pretty similar but it's not.

Except this time, I was very inspired by the 1980's in terms of general atmosphere. That's my childhood years, that is. So I said, “I want Walkmans, I want rollers, I want Minitels …” In terms of colouring, I kind of wanted that 1980's texture. So strictly speaking, it's fantasy. But my publisher, I think, will be more specific and label it as dystopia.

Since it's been written right after the Mirror Visitor and before Here and Only Here, you may feel it. Even though I picked it up again after I completed the latter, I think you'll actually feel the Mirror Visitor touch as well as the Here and Only Here touch, while it's like neither of them.

Interview by Ey@el
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